Democracy

[tk__]

ask most americans "what type of government do we have?" and 99% will say a democracy. this is untrue (it's a constitutional republic). it's part of history being re-written, like teachers saying nixon or FDR were good presidents.

when 51% of the people can tell the other 49% what to do, democracy is a tyrant's dream.

[i am all i am]

G'day Tk,
There is no democratic government on this planet. A democracy (that is social equality) would allow for each and every person a vote. No where upon this planet have I heard of any government giving children the right to vote. Until every person has the right to vote, there can be no true democracy and therefore, no true democratic government.

With LOVE.
________________________

WHEN PAIRED OPPOSITES DEFINE YOUR BELIEFS, YOUR BELIEFS WILL IMPRISON YOU.

[caleb_11]

Here in Australia we all say we live in a democratic nation, but it is "official" that we live in a constitutional monarchy. The democracy we have is "representative" and it isn't EVEN tyranny by the majority, it is when the "majority", even though it is like 35% of the population "votes" *cough* in a buch of people who dictate policy (dictators) to the population. Therefore a dictatorship by the minority. Most political philisophers would agree.

[truthcommission]

Talk about an inconvenient truth.

I live in the land you call Australia and don't recognize any of their laws but yet I am not a lawbreaker.

Go figure...

[hagbard_celine]

(Sung in a sickly tone) "Oh, Democracy... Democracy!"

People start weeping when you mention democracy! "My grandpa died for democracy!" etc.

Think of all the effort that people have put into achieving democracy throughout history: The Chartists, the Suffragettes, Solidarity, the ANC. And for what!? To put a cross on a piece of paper every few years and choose your govt's public relations officer! :mad: :p What a scam!

Sorry if I sound like a cynical conspiracy theorist... but I am so it tends to come out that way!

[chandrakavi]

If Democracy exists in this planet, then why do the powerful countries support COUPS, around the world, except in their own countries where
although not fully democratic the governments live like part of the Royalty
although they aren't?

Democracy is a great idea, but it does not exist, it is talked a lot about,
we live in a world of Barbarism, with wars,slaughters, the law of the jungle,
where it is more important to have more weapons than the rest, and secondly to have money. If we live in democracies, then what is the need of spending so much money on defense?

A true One World, would be a world without politicians, ruled by the people,
a world wiith no weapons, therefore no wars, but after all we cannot do away with the corruption, that they see weapons one of the biggest businessess in the world, so much money is gained, that they are not willing to leave it aside. The wars are of their making, disagreements, that way they sell the weapons to both sides. And later they help people rebuild, what they themselves have crushed IN THE NAME OF DEMOCRACY.


Bush said he went , among other things to Iraq, to LIBERATE THAT COUNTRY,
and at the same time said he hoped no one would come to "liberate him"
Words are one thing, deeds are quite another.

[cruise4]

I've been thinking about this issue and its a tricky one. What system could we have and how would it work. Even if you had everyone on the internet and could hold referendums on every decision there is no guarantee that a sensible decision would be reached. So what can we think up?

Anyone got any ideas?

[chandrakavi]

I've been thinking about this issue and its a tricky one. What system could we have and how would it work. Even if you had everyone on the internet and could hold referendums on every decision there is no guarantee that a sensible decision would be reached. So what can we think up?

Anyone got any ideas?

Since thing will remain the same, nothing will be changed, why not call things by the name of what they are, it is not democracy, it should be called
something like : "think you are free, in this dictatorship"

What we hope to have some day is MERITOLOGY ,each one according to its merits, it is said in Plato's Republic, we are nowhere near that, have never been.:(
Politicians have greed, no merits.

[cruise4]

"What we hope to have some day is MERITOLOGY ,each one according to its merits, it is said in Plato's Republic, we are nowhere near that, have never been. Politicians have greed, no merits."

Well how would that work if we could start again?

[chandrakavi]

1) People who vote are not allowed to do so merely because they are biologically 18, they have to know and at least have college.

") Politicians have to have UNIVERSITY studies Diplomas, and PH.D. people who truly know about the subject, they have MERITS for the job they are doing, which is not the case today, or in the past. Politicians are NOT knowledgeable people, they are the greatest manipulators, I' ll give them that.

3) Plato's Republic was made of WISE MEN, not just a heard of well dressed people, who say they reprent you, but do not.And you know it is so, world wide. Nothing new.

4) There should be a University made by people that have PHD, AND MASTERS and truly KNOW, to train these people, so when they get to power they will know what to do, because the truth is they haven't got a clue.
At least the genertion onwards will have a better life, then the one we have been given by them world wide.


5) Read the Repúblic by Plato, it has been totally forgotten,
which is how things really should have been from the start,
The right man in the right place not to earn only , but to care and do the job well,
not only to gurad the vested interests. If guarding the vested interests is all
it is going to be about , disguising it with pretty words, then let's just forget about doing things right, and continue with the wars that pay off, destruction has nothing to do with creativity. And having non-corrupt governments is the best thing to have ,when it is substituuted by knowledge and wisdom, while the rest do their own work earn money honestly.

There have been people in governments in the past, thousands of years ago in China, people were wise, like MARCOS AURELIUS ,who had it clear when it was time to leave power, and that there was life beyond power. And did well for their people.

I see politicans stuck on money on power, not what is good for the people
they are supposed to represent , don't you see that also?,
there is no option between them, they are ALL onto the same thing.
Were are their MERITS? do they have any?

So ilustrated and wise politicans, not today's scum we see all around us.

A Platonic idealistic view? Perhaps, but we have grown acustomed to seeing Gangsters do the work, and definetly we don't need them,
we all know the results .

[cruise4]

So you might have a Medical Guild with representatives on the Council. An Education Guild with Representatives on the council. Builders Guild, Famers Gild, Under 18 section, etc. etc.

Yes... I like that... no professional politicians at all. And balanced across society, representing all of society. Best I've heard so far.

[chandrakavi]

So you might have a Medical Guild with representatives on the Council. An Education Guild with Representatives on the council. Builders Guild, Famers Gild, Under 18 section, etc. etc.

Yes... I like that... no professional politicians at all. And balanced across society, representing all of society. Best I've heard so far.

YEs, that's it . Best we can accomplish through MERITOLOGY , demand merits of politicians,
if not we will continue to get more of the same, as we are doing today. We want Wise rulers, who can follow these steps, like I state on post 10. If not they are trash, that are of no good to us.

[dmessick]

I don't want a democracy, communist regime, fascist, or any other kind of goverment. I AM A SOVERIEGN AND DON"T NEED A MOMMY and DADDY GOVT! I am more than capable of taking care of my own affairs without having a govt 'looking after me'. I don't give anything to them and they don't give me anything. Exactly the way I want it. Oh, and they can stick all their 'laws' and 'regulations' up their asses too. I do what I want when I want. FREEDOM is all I ever wanted :D Remember who you are.

[cruise4]

dmessick... you can convert me to your view, you really can. But only if you answer how thugs, murderers and gangs etc. are to be handled by old ladies? If you can't its just so much selfish hot air.

[danucrom]

dmessick... you can convert me to your view, you really can. But only if you answer how thugs, murderers and gangs etc. are to be handled by old ladies? If you can't its just so much selfish hot air.

That question plays to peoples emotions. With or without govt shit would happen. Does your government make you feel safer in your home or on the streets?, are you reassured that your government via the Police will protect you from the nasty things in life?. Its an old trick IMO, governments want the public to believe that their lives would fall apart if they weren't around to keep us all "in line". Government and all its tentacles restrict peoples freedom, that has always been the case down through history.

[marpat]

Democracy is a way of letting people think they have a choice when they don't. There are only limited parties to vote for and they are all corrupt. This os a replacement of the revolutionary style of leadership replacement from history.

People then vote the worse of the parties out and then the pattern is set for the next few years. Over that time pubic opinion is ignored and the public treated as if they are an inconvenience.

There are a lot of public insitutes to look after the masses but these are there to prevent an uprising that would be caused by neglect. If the masses were neglected to an extreme degree (as is showing in Britain at present) then the result will be a backlash and violent revolt.

There has never been a real democracy as the winner is always the person who panders to the whims of the majority when necessary then acts like a dictator after victory. Then there is just a lot of blame shifting.

[chandrakavi]

Democracy is a way of letting people think they have a choice when they don't. There are only limited parties to vote for and they are all corrupt. This os a replacement of the revolutionary style of leadership replacement from history.

People then vote the worse of the parties out and then the pattern is set for the next few years. Over that time pubic opinion is ignored and the public treated as if they are an inconvenience.

There are a lot of public insitutes to look after the masses but these are there to prevent an uprising that would be caused by neglect. If the masses were neglected to an extreme degree (as is showing in Britain at present) then the result will be a backlash and violent revolt.

There has never been a real democracy as the winner is always the person who panders to the whims of the majority when necessary then acts like a dictator after victory. Then there is just a lot of blame shifting.

Agree with you. But since it is all going to go the politicians way, we might as well
see how they can show MERITS, these merits talked below. Also that the voters have a least college, 18 yrs old is not enough. Without politicians things would be much better,
less corruption etc. If they want to keep talking about democracy and freedom, MERITOLOGY, is the way to go. I agree with you democracy is an illusion. Today's law is that anybody who wants to be president must be a gangster more or less. Changing the requirements to having merits knowledge and wisdom would be much better for all. Sounds naive, must must start some time. if not "YOU'LL ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU HAVE ALWAYS GOTTEN"...

[angelicangel]

Agree with you. But since it is all going to go the politicians way, we might as well
see how they can show MERITS, these merits talked below. Also that the voters have a least college, 18 yrs old is not enough. Without politicians things would be much better,
less corruption etc. If they want to keep talking about democracy and freedom, MERITOLOGY, is the way to go. I agree with you democracy is an illusion. Today's law is that anybody who wants to be president must be a gangster more or less. Changing the requirements to having merits knowledge and wisdom would be much better for all. Sounds naive, must must start some time. if not "YOU'LL ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU HAVE ALWAYS GOTTEN"...
It doesn't really matter what us humans want to do, the politians always have the last vote. The only true politian is a liar. How many have you known say what they are going to do, and end up doing the opposite when they get into power, not many of them.:)

[hagbard_celine]

It doesn't really matter what us humans want to do, the politians always have the last vote. The only true politian is a liar. How many have you known say what they are going to do, and end up doing the opposite when they get into power, not many of them.:)

The thing is that the sustem is designed to weed out the genuine people and leave only the greedy and corruptible on the path to power. There are politicians who have principles and stand up for them, but they almost always remain back-bench MP's their whole careers. Ken Livingstone is a good example. He was a Labour Party member while Tony Blair was still getting debagged at Oxford rag nights, but despite coming from the back of the field, Blair gets to be PM while Livingstone is still shouting from the stalls, at best ending up a mere London Mayor (And I consider even that a miracle!):eek:

[angelicangel]

The thing is that the sustem is designed to weed out the genuine people and leave only the greedy and corruptible on the path to power. There are politicians who have principles and stand up for them, but they almost always remain back-bench MP's their whole careers. Ken Livingstone is a good example. He was a Labour Party member while Tony Blair was still getting debagged at Oxford rag nights, but despite coming from the back of the field, Blair gets to be PM while Livingstone is still shouting from the stalls, at best ending up a mere London Mayor (And I consider even that a miracle!):eek:

Even Dick Whittington became Lord Mayor, so what does that make the whole system, a pantomine:D:D:D

[hagbard_celine]

Even Dick Whittington became Lord Mayor, so what does that make the whole system, a pantomine:D:D:D

:D:D:D I'll have to remember that one!

[angelicangel]

I thought it might make you smile, the government make me laugh all the time. It reminds me of Yes Primeminister, or even Alan B'stard :D:D:D:D:D:D

[hagbard_celine]

I thought it might make you smile, the government make me laugh all the time. It reminds me of Yes Primeminister, or even Alan B'stard :D:D:

I like the bit when Alan joins the Labour Party and finds out that the leader is a boarding-school educated elitist and puts on a fake accent to make the people think he's from the working-class!:D:D:D

And Yes Prime Minister is great. I love it when Humphrey says: "Prime Minister, the Official secrets Act is not there to protect secrets, it's there to protect officials!":D:D:D

[angelicangel]

Makes you wonder if they didn't take the script from No:-10.:D:D:D

[kanz]

Democracy, such a horrible form of government. I believe it was Winston church hill who said "a 5 min conversation with an average voter , is the best argument against democracy"

[chandrakavi]

Democracy, such a horrible form of government. I believe it was Winston church hill who said "a 5 min conversation with an average voter , is the best argument against democracy"


Well for one thing, Winston Churchill was a FreeMason ,so he played the game,
but never believed it.